It's been two days; I've calmed down a bit about what happened at work; but it's still giving me pause about my own place in the company and my future here. It's more than jokes; I was ready for the jokes. The jokes went something like this:
Co-Worker: When are you going to get pregnant and quit?
Dog: *rubbing belly* Seven months, I think. Not sure; I blacked out.
I played along, kept a strong appearance. (You know that's the truth, Single Ma!) But that woman, I'll call her Xena, screwed us.
This isn't some common desk job; this is running bazillion dollar projects. You can't just walk out with two weeks notice. The company can't just hire some other cog.
Xena could have passed off some projects and stayed on part-time to finish the others. Or, she could have not taken on her new multi-year contract a couple months ago or the other one a couple months before that. As it is, Xena took on projects she didn't intend to finish and then dumped them. She screwed her customers, she screwed the whole company.
This impacts our company culture, it *really* impacts our workload, and it will impact all the women at this company. This won't be forgotten soon. She had a stay-at-home husband and a housekeeper, and she still quit. As long as I have a uterus, the risk is clear to the old boys that I could pull this kind of stunt. She was the only woman in the high levels of leadership and responsibility, now there are none, and she shafted all of us.
I think it's naive, well maybe idealistic, to think choices like this don't affect the way other career woman (namely, me) are viewed.
Sunday, September 7, 2008
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17 comments:
So you would have this woman who has worked 24/7 for the last 10 years put in another 10, 20 or 30 years 24/7 for you and your co-workers and your customers? And what will they do for her in her old age? Will they visit her, bring her flowers, take care of her when she is sick?
Do you actually have financial challenges or do you just like to boast about how much money you make and judge and rail against your co-workers, friends and family?
I repeat: "Xena took on projects she didn't intend to finish and then dumped them."
She could have not taken the projects, or she could have stayed on part time to do at least some of what SHE signed up for.
I don't see what flowers has to do with that.
Perhaps things are unexpectedly happening in her life that you aren't privy to. A handicapped child. A dying parent. Who knows why or what has influenced her decision.
Only she does. But judging her decision to quit is wrong. Gosh if a man did it would we laud him? If so then it's unfair.
However if you dissed a man for the exact reasons, say his wife died, handicapped child, dying parent, etc would he be held in the same disdain?
Then it's fair. But otherwise it's a person's individual choice.
By the way in the field I'm in there are no females. The last tenured full professor in the hard sciences is over 20 years ago. Why?
Nature and science don't mix. The time when you have children are the years you should spend chasing tenure. Talk about stupid. Now they are "bending" the rules by extending the time you can reach tenure so women can have a shot with maternity leave.
I'm confused. It takes 9 months for full gestation, which allows "at least" 6 months warning from a positive test to delivery. But you make it sound like she just up and quit with little notice. Please explain.
What if she's having a complicated pregnancy? What if she just learned something heart wrenching about the health of her unborn child? What if HER body is causing harm to her baby and the only way to stop it is to quit work? What if her doctor gave her medical direction? If you knew the details of her personal life or the whens/whys/hows she was led to make this life changing decision, would your opinion still be the same?
-She could have passed off projects and stayed on part time
-She should not have taken on the MM contract a few months ago
-She took on projects she didn't intend to finish and then dumped them
-She screwed customers
-She screwed the whole company
Listen to yourself...
I'm sorry, this follow up post doesn't help explain your position any better. You still sound judgmental and insensitive without knowing the full details of her personal situation - which I'm sure isn't discussed in detail at the office.
Further, if I'm naive for thinking her career choices don't affect the way career women are viewed - I think people like you perpetuate the problem by making asinine assumptions.
I only know the details that the men senior to me pass down, and if you think I'm judgy, you should have heard them. This isn't my judgy opinion, it's the consensus of the whole office, fair or not.
I didn't hear about medical issues, but if the pregnancy was complicated, I would think she would quit during and not after it.
I'll probably never know the details, and at this point they don't matter because decisions have already been made and the bridges burned quickly.
I only know the details that the men senior to me pass down
That's what I thought.
If you think I'm judgy, you should have heard them.
Doesn't matter and doesn't make your comments any better. You're only perpetuating the problem that we (women) have to deal with in the workforce. If all the men are against her decision, I'm sure she wish at least one woman understood and supported her.
I didn't hear about medical issues, but if the pregnancy was complicated, I would think she would quit during and not after it.
I rest my case. You all received at least a few months notice, so she didn't "just up and quit."
If you're really a team player and an upcoming shining star who doesn't want her career negatively affected by the decision of ONE woman, you should focus on how you can step in and pick up where she left off. The office is in a bind and you can help save them (and ultimately yourself). Instead of complaining, use these remaining months to be proactive, milk her for information, learn all you can from her - then offer to contribute to her projects and help in whatever way you can. Use this situation to your advantage and strategize a plan to HELP the company and COUNTER the men's view of women in the workforce, rather than perpetuate the negative stereotype.
As a manager, if I saw something as a problem and you only perpetuated the problem, YOU become part of the problem. I would continue to view you in a negative way unless you helped me FIX the problem.
I agree with single ma. You can step up or step aside. I don't remember seeing the age of the woman, but if she's done college, worked for ten more years, then she is probably getting to the mid- late 30's. I can understand her actions. 1-The closer she gets to 40, the greater the risk of health issues for her and the baby. 2-She may have been trying to conceive for some time--even years. I have a friend who has been trying for 5 years--to no avail. Should she have told the bosses--sorry, no new projects, just give me a pay check because I don't want to inconvenience anyone by taking on projects "I have no intention of keeping". No one can predict how long it will become to get pregnant-especially as the woman gets older and if the pill, IUD's, etc. have been used longterm. 3-Maybe she and her husband really wanted a child. 4-Perhaps she chose her profession and busted her butt so she could have the financial freedom to walk away. Maybe she and her husband agreed that she would work first, then he would work. You have no idea of the workings of their relationship.
For all your high-dollar, high-powered education, you couldn't come up with something other than 'judgy'--you mean something like judgemental? You are --at least here on the blog--extremely judgemental. Get the chip off your shoulder. If you choose to work 18 hours a day, then 10 years from now, you may be wondering what you've done with your life. I am speaking from experience. I made great money, loved my job, and worked insane hours for 10 years. One day I woke up and realized how many things I had missed. I had plenty of money, but few memories of good times (that weren't related to successes at work). I gave a six month notice, went back to college in a completely different field and work 37.5 hours a week now. It's like a vacation after 90-100 hour work weeks from the past. I have kept in touch with many of my co-workers. None of the females have languished because I MADE the DECISION to leave.
By the way, it doesn't matter what field you are in or how much you make, there are many men (and career oriented women) who will ridicule a woman about pregnancy. People aren't always nice, life isn't always fair.
---loving this life
This OP and the preceding one make me sad, they show your immaturity and naivete.
I think it sucks what happened at work but it shouldn't mean that people are going to look to you to make the same mistake. Now that Xena is gone (is she really gone, i.e. not planning on coming back after baby?) maybe you can step up and take over some of her work and get a promotion.
If she is as crucial to the company as you say she is, they have probably already lined up a replacement.
Otherwise, this is the time for you to move up. You're willing to work 24/7 for the next 30 years and give up a life outside of work.
Also, not that it matters, if she was a founder of this company and was making the money you say she was and had the position you say she has, it is not likely that she is giving up ALL of her financial ties/benefits with the company.
Finally, are you so upset with her because she validated your own view the you should work all the time and forget family and friends for the sake of "making more money than the rest of your family." Now that Xena has decided that is not how she wants to live her life, you're mad because it puts into question your values. It is her choice, just like some day it will be your choice to make.
Is this really a blog or a very clever social experiment, because no one can be this obtuse.
Actually, you were probably already shaky or being challenged on your plans and the one person who you could point to as making it "work" bailed on you. If you really want to dedicate your life to your career, (and that is your choice) you would not care what she did. You would see it as an opportunity to more up! You would be dancing on your desk, instead of crying on it.
I've been thinking about this post (it has really bothered me), and just came back to say something very similar to what anon (above) has said. I think this woman is threatening your values, and now you see that even very successful people can decide that family can be just as/more so important than work. Maybe you bothered by this because you believe that only unsuccessful/uneducated/stupid women would choose to stay home with their kids and leave their career. She's totally challenged your belief system. I suspect that you are living the life you live for apearances more than anything else. You seem to enjoy pointing out that you earn more money than anyone you know an awful lot - but does that make you happy? I feel like if you were completely convinced you are on the right track in your life, this wouldn't have upset and shaken you so much.
I have to say I find it fascinating that everyone is focusing on the fact that she left because she was having a child. Would you judge her the same way if she left for a better job? What would you be saying if they told her the company was moving in a new direction without her? There is no loyalty necessary on either side; don't expect it.
If she left for a better opportunity I think people would be happy but pissed.
Actually, if she left for a better job she would have taken at least some of her contracts with her.
honestly.
Wow. you have friends? are they as shallow and stupid as you. I would apologise for the name calling but in this case you deserve it. You know nothing.
Why should this woman base her decisions on how it affects you? Are you her daughter? sister? mentee? Do you know what is going on in her life? No.
I think you think everyone should love money as much as you and you have too much to prove. Maybe think about adding a good shrink (no joke) to your monthly expenses b/c you have serious issues. This woman gave her company ample notice. When people are laid off for reasons "beyond the control of the company" said companies are not usually so nice.
Why should she put a company first before her family life? It seems that you don't even care too much (seems I said - i might be wrong) about your own family life so mayb that's why you can't relate.
I can't believe that people in this day and age can put things up online.
Whoa, and I was enjoying reading your posts up to here too (I started near the beginning).
Is your problem that a woman is breeding? That no women with responsible careers should be allowed to do this? Because it sounded really harsh the way you said it.
Just a point to consider though, no-one else can make you feel inferior, without your permission. When you say “When women pull crap like this, it makes ALL women look less professional and reliable than our male co-workers. Today, it was somehow viable in mens' minds that I would just walk out on a huge salary, on my co-workers, and on my customers. Because of her decision, I looked flaky”. That’s drawing a very long bow, if you ask me. If person A in your organisation is judging you by person Bs behaviour that is an issue you have with person A, not with person B.
My organisation started drafting a 'maternity leave contingency plan' recently, and I found the name offensive. Surely just an 'extended leave' plan would have been appropriate? Anyone could need extended time off at any time (ie what if one of the men found out he had cancer or other horrible illness that would require a long period of absence?), and at least with maternity leave (unlike illness) there is sufficient time to plan and have a proper handover to the person who will be filling the position.
I understand that this post was written in the heat of the moment, with passion and anger, and that’s fine, it adds colour to a blog to have such posts, I just hope that you won’t judge women for wanting to have children and look after them.
(oh, and by the way, I’m a rabid feminist who would prefer that women were in the workplace rather than quitting to have children, because of the long-term negative repercussions it can have on their career and sense of self - and even I disagreed with you!)
Edit: Just read your follow up: Some Truth in Anon Comments . Mmmm hmmm… that’s more like it. We all want it all; it’s just not always possible…! Do what makes you happy, what feels right for you. I am hoping to start a family in the next year, and can not imagine giving up full-time work, even for a short period (in Australia we get 1 year unpaid maternity leave). My husband will be the primary carer. He thinks I’ll change my mind though, and want to take the full year off, but I just can not see that working for me. I can see why a lot of new parents would want to take a year/10 years off to care for their families exclusively… but I’m pretty sure that just wouldn’t be right for me.
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