I try not to talk about personal finance in real life, but it seems to keep coming up in this economy. There are things I don't talk about in real life. I don't tell people that we own over 50K in cars for cash, or that I paid off my crippling student loans recently, or that we paid for the wedding in cash.
Car payments and student loan payments are very, deeply normal. Here at work, people talk about their student loan payments and their car payments all the time. Always the monthly payment amount, a practically useless figure. Yesterday, the gang was talking about their student loan payments. It's normal. I tried to punt and say that I was in wedding payment mode, but I got asked directly, what are your student loan payments?
Now, it's been so long since I had scary student loans, and I never, ever paid a minimum payment on anything, so it's hard to say. Rewinding back, I think the private loans were at least $500 and the federal ones were a little less. So, I guessed, using my co-workers amounts as well. My schools were as expensive or more expensive than theirs, so I said $1,100.
Yea, I made up a payment for a loan I don't have.
Obviously, this was a lie. I'm debt free. I'm proud to be debt free, don't get me wrong, but it's a private thing to me. I didn't want to make anyone feel bad for all their debt, believe me I'm no saint. I certainly didn't want anyone to think I come from some sort of privilege, so I just blended in. I can't even imagine the responses if I had told the truth. I would, at a minimum, be very strange. Probably more like preachy or intimidating.
I have no doubt that the guys at work have massive student loan payments and car payments. I'm pretty sure I was the only one supplying bad information. I would never want to go back to my days with Sallie Mae. I hated that witch so much that I lived with three roommates, ate only mac & cheese, refilled my gin & tonic with water at the club, shared wireless with the duplex next door, and shopped at the thrift store. Oh, and we're now DINKs with some very good income.
I wonder if things will be different now, as people save more in this recession. I certainly won't go first, but I wonder what it would be like if people in real life were proud to be debt free. I wonder if it weren't "normal" to borrow for school and cars. In the meantime, I won't tell anyone the truth about my debt for quite some time.
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
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26 comments:
Seems odd that you would lie, especially about something so pedestrian. Why not just say you paid off your loans? If they asked how, you could have given the abbreviated version - you scrimped and saved for a number of years in order to accelerate the payoff.
Interesting, obviously everyone went to private school or there wouldn't be much to talk about. Many of my colleagues went to the same public university and I doubt any of us had much student loan debt. It's never come up. The problem with lying is you have to keep it up. Aren't you in finance? Is being financially smart not respected in that field?
No, I'm not in finance, or I would have lost my job a while back. Everyone at work has some kind of grad degree, and some were longer and more expensive than mine, some cheaper. Even when they went to public schools, everyone seems to still be neck-deep in debt.
But then, they have houses. So, I guess I could have bought a house instead of paying off Sallie Mae.
I wouldn't have lied.
I think a lot of the problem with debt is perception - people think it's normal, therefore ok, because everyone else has it.
A simple, "I recently made it a priority to pay off, but before I did my payments were similar to yours" would have sufficed. And maybe the more people step up and admit debt is not normal and ok, the less trouble people will get into.
I understand why you lied, but I'm not sure I would have. Though there are other things in life I lie about, mainly so I don't make others feel bad. For example in grad school I finished our final project early, but told everyone I was still working on it to not make them feel bad.
So I totally understand why you lied.
I agree with commenters above, it's kind of silly to lie about it. It comes across like you're embarrassed to have paid them off.
Besides which, instead of shaming people, maybe you would have inspired them. One of the best ways to encourage others to follow a better financial path is to lead by example and show them that someone just like them can do it.
I freely talk about finances in everyday life. Because of that, I've had friends ask me if they should do X, or how much is good to put in a 401k, can you help me track down all my student loans, etc. By sharing with others, I help them. By keeping things to yourself, you condone their actions.
Why feel the need to lie about it? I have coworkers that bitch about their car payment, I'm happy to say I don't have one. If yours are still dealing with student loans, why not be proud that you have paid yours off? With me and my wife having over 6 figures of student loan debt, I'll be happy to tell people about getting rid of them. I get excited when they go down 1k, because it's 1k we no longer owe. Lieing about this kind of thing to be 'one' with the group isn't worth it.
I think it's strange that you lied about having debt when you don't.
It's not really normal to have debt, or at least it shouldn't be.
I'm debt-free too and if someone asks me about it I just tell them the truth. It's not MY fault they feel bad about their mounds of debt. Maybe they should try harder at eliminating it--who knows?
I save and am frugal and that's what I tell others when asked. Usually the conversation then moves onto them asking and me sharing some tips about ways to be frual, save, etc.
I think you should just be honest next time you're asked, use the line that R. May provided for ya!
I am sad that you can't be proud in public to have no debt. You should be able to state your accomplishment just the way you said it. I paid them off when I sacrificed and made being debt free my only priority. That being said I don't have to see these people everyday either and while many people I work with are comfortable discussing payment amounts, etc. I find it just plain rude to ask someone such personal information and usually excuse myself before the attention focus's on me.
I guess I would be jumping for joy and bragging about the fact you paid off the loans if I were you. I was extremely fortunate to graduate without any loans (Thanks Mom & Dad!) and I wouldn't lie about it if someone asked me. Debt is one area that keeping up with the Joneses is not so great and you should be proud that you've left them in the dust!!!
I agree with the others that your lie didn't serve any useful purpose. Saying that you paid off your school loans might have made others consider doing so, too. Being an example to others doesn't have to be preachy. Having a good handle on your finances is just another sign of intelligence.
Kind of funny - that same awkwardness you had is the same feeling people get when the topic of faith comes up. You want to be casual about it and not make it a big deal about your spiritual beliefs, but you also feel it is private and don't want to come across preachy.
In my experience in my profession, you also want to avoid the topic because it is far more accepted to criticize faith in social circles, particularly Christianity, than it is accepting to share about it.
I think with either money or faith, it's probably best to live by example. Should you look for ways to tell people how their finances are screwed up? No, but when the questions come (and they will), you can be honest and people will listen because they respect & know your story and how you live your life.
At least you were honest on your blog :O)
All I can say is that i'm happy those type of discussions don't take place where I work!
People would really hate me and see me as a spoiled brat, even though i'm not.
And I like to tell the truth when somebody asks, so I won't lie and come up with a number either. I wouldn't even know how much since I never had to deal with loans.
But I can see why you would want to lie about it. Being the odd one out sucks, and for sure you'll have people disliking you because you don't have any debt. They'll start wondering about how much you make and how come you were able to pay it all off, while they are still in debt.
Hmm. I definitely wouldn't have lied. You should be proud of your accomplishments and paying off debt is one of them. I get asked a lot about student loans and if I have them. I tell them the truth, my grandparents paid for my Bachelors and my husband and I paid my Masters in less than 1 1/2years. Why lie about something like that?
I typically do the same thing. I avoid the answer instead of an outright lie. Do people really want to know I paid off my student loans already? Or that I bought a house at 22 with 10% DP and turned it into 20% DP on our current place?
My DH and I rarely talk about it. Now we are back in student loan hell but I rarely mention it. If asked directly I and stared at I'll say something pretty evasive.
In a situation like that, I kindly remark that my grandfather told me as a young adult never to discuss my finances, religion or politics (and he really did). They are all personal which makes for strong opinions. So far, no one has gotten upset...not to say it won't happen!
I also think it's sort of weird that the topic even came up. I understand talking about finances among close friends, but I don't think I'd discuss monthly debt payments with coworkers. I understand why you lied, but I also probably wouldn't have, if only because I would hope that my bluntness would keep them from drawing me into a conversation like that again.
BTW, your blog is great!
I'm the first person to say it, but I probably would have done what you did. I'm not sure they would have cared either way.
In general I try not to talk about finances with IRL people because they will make assumptions. I have a friend who, if she knew I save as I much as I do, would mock it and would attempt to force me to spend the money.
@TeacHer
I could be wrong, but I think she is an attorney. Many attorneys have well over $100k in student loans. It's often brought up amongst such a circle of contemporaries because it's something we all have in common. We're all in the same boat of debt so we might as well have a laugh about how much money we owe :O)
I know me & my fellow attorneys have a laugh about it, but I rarely bring up specifics to a non-attorney because the concept of $100k student loans is so foreign to them, it would be a pretty awkward conversation. It's one pissing contest I don't really want to win!
Nah, I'm not a lawyer or I would have lost my job a while back as well. Most people at work are older than me and changed careers and got grad degrees. I guess there are a couple JDs, but not many.
For the record, I'm in finance and haven't lost my job. Not everyone in finance has to worry about their jobs, it's the company of employment that is the issue.
In your case, though, I totally understand why you lied, but I agree with the majority of commenters that it's not something I would do. Perhaps because I am in finance and I share my financial screw-ups on a regular basis, it just seems like it's no big deal to me. And talking about student loans doesn't really seem that personal anyway. A lot of people have them, and you should be proud of the fact that you paid them off. As long as you didn't reprimand your coworkers or spout off some condescending remark about them having debt, I think you'd have been fine letting them know you didn't have student loans. I think lying is a bad policy in general and try to avoid it whenever possible.
I would probably dodge the question, mainly because I don't think it's anyones business, here, student loans are'nt a big issue as repayments are tied to our income through the tax system, but I wouldn't feel comfortable discussing my financial specifics with my colleagues or my friends.
I can understand why you would lie to blend in a little at work. I am much older than some of my colleagues and I straight up tell them how much I sympathize from my own student loan experience. I just promise them that in 10 yrs they really will be done with them.
Kids today pay a LOT more in interest than I did. 7-8% vs the 4-5% I paid.
This post got me thinking so much I ended up writing my own post on it: http://alwaystheplanner.blogspot.com/2009/03/talking-about-money.html
I'm surprised that everyone is against what you did. I would have done the same thing as you or told them I would rather not discuss numbers. I purchased a new vehicle in cash and everyone is curious about the details. I try to avoid the details as much as I can but I ended up saying I do have a payment.
If it makes you feel better, I understand and agree with you :) Personal finances are private.
I can't wait for the day that I get to say that I'm debt free. I actually just started a new program to help with my finances. CheckingFinder.com is offering trial memberships to Dave Ramsey’s MyTotalMoneyMakeover.com for everyone who submits an application. Just wanted to pass it along!
J Swoboda
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